Phase one body and back suggestion for products/portraits

[Allthink_]

Ah I was under the impression that you already own H lenses. That was my case. But if you didn’t, I would think there are other options. Mamiya lenses work well. As do Pentax, with their respective adapters (non Fuji). And these are inexpensive. I haven’t used the Canon TS-E, but I understand works well too.

With adapted lenses, in the studio, you are stuck to Fuji’s 1/125s flash sync. But on the H lenses, you have 1/800 which I feel is an advantage in product work. Also, the H lenses are being traded for cents to its former retail dollar, so are relatively inexpensive these days. I remember my HC120macro was some USD6k new, but you can get a reasonable condition example the on eBay for USD1k+ these days. I have the 28, 80 (very sharp, small, and inexpensive. Often overlooked), 120 macro for my work, which is mostly macro, with some portraits and architecture. If I start from a fresh sheet of paper today, I would get the GFX 100 II with both the GF T/S lenses. And maybe add a GF80 for portraits. I will need the 18mm extension tube for the 110 T/S for my macro. But this setup is all native Fuji, and is expensive. But it works very well, and I have tried it.

The HTS does not add crop, but you get a 1.5x focal length multiplier…that is a 50mm lens has the same field of view equivalent of 75mm. Which will look like a 59mm full frame field of view on the GFX. And yes it does get quite bulky with the HTS. I also found the HTS cumbersome to work with. As others have mentioned, if you chose GFX/HTS, the adapter and HTS is so large that you may be better off with a small setup like the Cambo Actus, albeit more expensive. The Cambo will also be more flexible. Of course the advantage of the HTS is that it is positionally aware, and transit the shift and tilt data to the back. It does this on the H bodies, but I am not sure if it does this through the Fuji adapter to the GFX. I don’t have the HTS anymore.

regarding if clients will notice. It depends.. I don’t know your clients. But most will not. Mine do not notice the difference. Most of the art directors in magazines I work with, and the watch manufacturers who I shoot for, do not care what camera or lens I shoot with. But I do think gear makes a difference. To the photographer more so than to the buyer. If the gear makes me feel good shooting, I think I make better photographs with it than gear which is uninspiring to me.

regarding actuations on the H lenses, I think it is difficult to judge. I have seen shutter actuations in the mid 10s of thousands…like 50k or 75k still going strong and work well. But I have also seen shutter failures with 10k actuations. I think these shutters are designed for high actuations, as these are made for professional environments, but being mechanical, it can fail anytime.

Thank you
Which model of Hass macro do you use, 1st, 2nd hcii, or orange dot?
Does it even matter what the shutter count it is if it's used on mirrorless? is it still using mechanical shutter to set the aperture? If yes, then what is the safe place to go , under 50k?

 

[P. Chong]

I have the old HC 4/120 Macro. Btw, Hasselblad says this lens is not compatible with the HTS.

regarding shutter actuation count, I don’t know what is a good number. i would say, get as low as possible, but condition of the glass is more important.

Thank you
Which model of Hass macro do you use, 1st, 2nd hcii, or orange dot?
Does it even matter what the shutter count it is if it's used on mirrorless? is it still using mechanical shutter to set the aperture? If yes, then what is the safe place to go , under 50k?

 

[Allthink_]

Hi Max,

Cambo has posted a six-part introductory video tutorial on technical camera movements, here:

Video Introduction of View Camera movements (cambo.com)

Rod

Hi Rod
Because I still didn't make any move in any direction, and waited to learn about stuff, I'm revising the topic.
I already realized that the additional option of Hasselblad H5d-50c wifi with hts is viable for products and architecture. And the FUJI GFX 100s, which accepts Hass. lenses, also an option, so I'm thinking weather thise are good options to move from my current 45mp ff setup. I for sure can benefit IQ -wise, but will my clients see and appreciate the difference. What's your opinion?

 

[Allthink_]

Max, If you want to learn some basic info about today's technical cameras, I've written a few articles here:
Introduction
Lenses and Accessories
Bags, Packing and Processes
Using Camera Movements in the Field

I'm not sure how helpful these will be, since it is more about "how" and less about "why." You might find some value in the first article. There are a few differences between these cameras and a camera equipped with a tilt/shift lens:

1. A tilt/shift lens can only move in one dimension at a time. You can rise/fall or shift, but you can't do both at once. Same with tilt. You can tilt or swing, but not both.
2. Most, but not all, t/s lenses move the lens, not the capture device (camera or back). I much prefer moving the capture device because moving the lens changes perspective. Note the new Fuji t/s lenses have a collar/foot in the right place so you can move the capture device. This is excellent.
3. A technical camera has movements in-camera, so you get them with all your lenses, not just purpose-built t/s lenses.
4. T/S lenses have a limited range of movements. Most t/s lenses are limited to between 10-15mm of movement.
5. In my opinion, movements are much easier to manage from the camera than from the lens simply because the knobs are bigger and more accessible.

None of these are a "really big advantage." For me, they add up to a different experience in the field; I value that experience. But they also come with really big limitations in other areas. Hand holding is pretty much out of the question, nothing is quick and lenses are slow.

Dave

Hi David
Seems like a really pro level articles and I will read them again today.
I wanted to hear your opinion as well. I have an opportunity to buy used Hasselblad H5D-50C wifi (and later HTS adapter ) for products and architecture or Fuji gfx 100s to move from my current 45mp ff setup and want to hear your opinion, is it a good move, will my clients benefit from that move?

 

[Allthink_]

What are you hoping to gain from moving to medium format?

While I have never used it, on paper a P65 is an interesting proposition, especially if you already have an old body and optics you are happy using with MF film, as it would offer a minimal cost option to try full frame MF digital.

My opinion is that on every objective technical metric, the Fuji 100s is going to blow any 10 year old Phase system out of the water. About the only thing I can see that the Phase would have is leaf shutters. That said, enjoyment of use is important, if subjective.

You say you already have 45MPixel FF cameras: what limitations are you encountering there to drive the MF experiment?

To be clear, I have no problem with a justification of “because I feel like it and can afford it”, that is how I justify my MF kit! It does make it hard to provide objective advice though, because it is ultimately a very subjective justification.

The other thing I would note is, if based in the EU, make sure your charging and power situations are fully in place and not reliant on availability of chargers or cables beyond next year: we don’t yet know how the USB-C direc will play out in practice. In theory it shouldn’t cause issues, but that relies on everyone being sensible.

Hello Robbie
I just re read what you wrote some months ago. Actually I don't know what I will gain if I move to that direction of MF. Maybe it will give me some new creative possibilities. I want to make decision on based on "I can afford that" but more professionally. Because I can't rent old cameras, like the Hasselblad H5D-50C wifi I'm considering, and only can buy it on ebay, without option to return it to the seller, I have to rely on members opinion here. There is also an option to buy Fuji GFX 100s used from 2021. Hence I wonder will in be good decision, quality wise( I and my clients will apprecieate that additional quality) and professionally wise(money wise).
Maybe it can open new creative possibilities, like using HTS adapter instead of TS-e ff lenses, maybe for product /studio it can be better.

 

[Allthink_]

I was talking about an IQ1 50 (50 MP, 44 x 33) not an IQ4 150. An IQ1 50 is still a very strong tool.
Checking focus, fine-tuning the light etc. is a big advantage with CMOS sensors.
If you want everything in focus, the cropped sensor is easier to handle and working in the UI is noticeably faster than with 53.4 x 40 sensors.

Concerning C1 I'm very happy. Software is almost more important than the camera.
If you compare, it's the cheapest part in photography, I don't bother with those costs.

For product shots I changed in 2006 from Sinar to Cambo Ultima and Cambo WRS + P1
because I didn't like the route of the Sinar digital backs, lens shutters and of course the pricing.

Unfortunately, light and lighting is not very present in this forum. But I would definitely focus on this.
This is where the wheat is separated from the chaff.
The digital back and its size is actually a minor matter.

Regards,
Ben

Hello Ben
I got back to the topic and re read you comments. Also, I do like your architecture and products photos, very pro level stuff.
So yes, there are some old options available for me today, as used ones.
I can't afford Cambo WRS with P1 back and Cambo lenses for architecture, as each one costs ~10k $.
So, currently I have opportunity to buy(but not to test and return , as it's buy from ebay options) 2 cameras, like Hasselblad H5d-50c wifi(and maybe HTS) and Fuji GFX 100s.
I'm wondering will I and my clients benefit from that move in your opinion. Will they get better quality than my current 45mp ff setup, maybe these cameras can bring some new creative possibilities etc.
BTW, what lenses are you using for Cambo WRS, what DB?
Does your shift option is better that the shift in TS-e ff lenses? what's the benefit using those lenses, more sharp in corners?

 

[Ben730]

Hello Maxim
That's a lot of unanswered questions. I think the camera system is completely overrated these days. The important thing is whether you know your system and how to use it. After visiting your website, I'm sure you can.
For me, the backlighting behavior of a lens is one of the most important things in interior design photos. Frayed window frames, chromatic aberration etc. are extremely annoying for me when masking.
In my opinion, the advantages of medium format are the 4:3 aspect ratio and the higher resolution. The higher resolution makes retouching/masking much easier.
I have been working as a photographer for 25 years now. I have therefore used and tested almost all cameras and lenses. If I were to buy everything new, I would probably only buy a Fuji GFX 100s and two Nikon Z8. Video is becoming more and more important, so Hasselblad and Phase One would be out of the equation.

I suggest you Fuji GFX 100s. The Hasselblad H system is big, heavy and old.
With an adapter you can use the Nikon TS 19 mm and the Canon TS.
The Nikon 19 mm delivers excellent quality on the GFX 100 with an appropriate lens hood (I built one myself as I couldn't find anything suitable on the market).

With the WRS I use the Nikkor 19 TS, RD HR 23, RD HR-W 32, SK 47, RD 55, SK 72, RD HR-SW 90 and the Hasselblad CFi 150. (RD=Rodenstock, SK= Schneider Kreuznach)
Digital backs from Phase One IQ3 100 and IQ1 50.

Regards,
Ben

 

[dchew]

Hi David
Seems like a really pro level articles and I will read them again today.
I wanted to hear your opinion as well. I have an opportunity to buy used Hasselblad H5D-50C wifi (and later HTS adapter ) for products and architecture or Fuji gfx 100s to move from my current 45mp ff setup and want to hear your opinion, is it a good move, will my clients benefit from that move?

I'm going to essentially repeat what Ben just said above. ^^^

Once you get to know the system you use, you will reach the point of it "disappearing" in your workflow. From there, the system you use will not be apparent to your clients. Personally, I would struggle doing product and architecture without a technical camera. But now that Fuji has two T/S lenses, I know at least a few pro photographers that made a full switch from a technical camera to the GFX for both product and architecture. It's easy for us to say, "Don't worry about differences in perceived quality; use the system you prefer," but quite difficult for you to figure out which you prefer without trials / tests! The one nice thing about the GFX system is there seems to be a good supply of used equipment. With a little effort, you could build a used system and if you don't bond with it, sell it for essentially the same price.

Dave

 

[Allthink_]

Hello Maxim
That's a lot of unanswered questions. I think the camera system is completely overrated these days. The important thing is whether you know your system and how to use it. After visiting your website, I'm sure you can.
For me, the backlighting behavior of a lens is one of the most important things in interior design photos. Frayed window frames, chromatic aberration etc. are extremely annoying for me when masking.
In my opinion, the advantages of medium format are the 4:3 aspect ratio and the higher resolution. The higher resolution makes retouching/masking much easier.
I have been working as a photographer for 25 years now. I have therefore used and tested almost all cameras and lenses. If I were to buy everything new, I would probably only buy a Fuji GFX 100s and two Nikon Z8. Video is becoming more and more important, so Hasselblad and Phase One would be out of the equation.

I suggest you Fuji GFX 100s. The Hasselblad H system is big, heavy and old.
With an adapter you can use the Nikon TS 19 mm and the Canon TS.
The Nikon 19 mm delivers excellent quality on the GFX 100 with an appropriate lens hood (I built one myself as I couldn't find anything suitable on the market).

With the WRS I use the Nikkor 19 TS, RD HR 23, RD HR-W 32, SK 47, RD 55, SK 72, RD HR-SW 90 and the Hasselblad CFi 150. (RD=Rodenstock, SK= Schneider Kreuznach)
Digital backs from Phase One IQ3 100 and IQ1 50.

Regards,
Ben

Thank you Ben
your opinion helps me
I saw some arc. photographer, Barry Grossman selling Cambo WRS 5000 and Rodenstock 23mm HR & 40mm HR Tilt Swing as well as 30mm he sold, but this kit is 22k $, I would love to get this but it's a lot of $. But your kit is impressive as well.
I also hate CA, and it's very heavy on Nikon PC-e 24mm, that's why I bought Canon version 24mm t-se, it's better, as well less vignetting on full shift.
Yes, you kit is probably more capable than going Fuji route, but also more expensive.
Yes, lighting is also very important, i'm learning all the time, even i'm on my 12's year, I know I still don't know so much that other pros do.

So yes, maybe I will pull the tgigger for that Fuji, which I will have to accompany with some lenses. I know one alternative is using Fotodiox adapter with Mamiya/Pentax 645/67 lenses, the other is Fujis adapter and buying Hass. HC (24,28, 120 mcaro etc.) lenses, and Fuji's lens itself so I have also here 3 options that I will have to choose from. What do you think?
Currently I have some Elincrhom lights, and some fast Godox lights( 300ws at 1/2500s) pretty fast for freezing, my products portfolio wasn't renewed since 2014...

BTW, is it possible to do a zoom session with you, I'm interested how in what method you do masking technique. Maybe you recorded something?

 

[Allthink_]

I'm going to essentially repeat what Ben just said above. ^^^

Once you get to know the system you use, you will reach the point of it "disappearing" in your workflow. From there, the system you use will not be apparent to your clients. Personally, I would struggle doing product and architecture without a technical camera. But now that Fuji has two T/S lenses, I know at least a few pro photographers that made a full switch from a technical camera to the GFX for both product and architecture. It's easy for us to say, "Don't worry about differences in perceived quality; use the system you prefer," but quite difficult for you to figure out which you prefer without trials / tests! The one nice thing about the GFX system is there seems to be a good supply of used equipment. With a little effort, you could build a used system and if you don't bond with it, sell it for essentially the same price.

Dave

Thank you Dave for your opinion
As a photographer that sometimes in a while have "GAS" syndrome sparks/flashes, "my hands itch" to buy, I assume many of us guilty of that.
But really, i do also want to improve, be a better photographer then yesterday, and what to do if we dealing with gear anyway.
I also think it's the photographer, not the equipment, but with a grain of salt (not only a photographer)

Actually I never tried technical camera, and I still want to, because I can learn something new i never experienced and I do shoot architecture. But the digital options are very pricey (for example Cambo WRS with Cambo Rodenstock lenses). Maybe you can suggest some (non film) but digital tech camera, lens and back that can be picked used with reasonable amount of $ today and used for architecture/products? I only have experience with ts-e/pc-e lenses.

Because if I go the easy route, picking DSLR style fuji GFX, i will get some improvements but the learning will be too easy, as it's almost same style of camera as my ff's,
The second question I ask myself and want to hear your opinion, will I get better workflow, more quality than my ff's, and will my clients see/appreciate the files they will get (either if I go Fuji route)

 

[SylB]

Hi
Yes, I meant HC 100, the one that is compatible with HTS.
About crop factor, I saw some guy on Youtube explaining that adding adapter to FUJI GFX adds a crops factor, as well as HTS adapter itself. Hasselblad X2D + HCD 4/28 + HTS 1.5 + XH 0.8x | City Lights in Medium Format (youtube.com) - one of his vides-he has many on FUJ GFX too)

From specs of HTS adapter pdf manual that i read, it says that it also adds crop factor, as the angles mentioned for specific lens are smaller that actual one mention if using as regular lens.
What do you think about buying one of 2 mentioned options today? will the clients will appreciate the difference and quality?

OK, from the video you linked, I understand. The Hasselblad adapter in this video is a different type, and unique to Hasselblad. If you adapt HC system to Fuji, you won't find an equivalent. And in this case it is the contrary of a crop factor !
And yes, the HTS adds some kind of crop factor by enlarging the image, equivalent to multiplying the focal length by x1,5.
I only know the Hasselblad H system that I use, so I cannot comment on the GFX ecosystem. But HTS is a strong offer I think. At least this is what convinced me to buy it, back then.

Regarding the difference for your customer, I join the comments by other members of the forum. If you go medium format route, you will gain better files, easier to work with, that you will enjoy more, hopefully unleashing your potential and creativity. But I doubt a client would be able to say what system you use by looking at your production (which seems already high level).

 

[Allthink_]

A Hasselblad H6D-400c MS for product and repro work. It's a ridiculously expensive and niche camera which I wouldn't recommend to anyone that doesn't have some specific requirement for which it's an appropriate tool. There are a variety of cameras because there are a variety of photographers with different individual needs and preferences.

For work requiring movements, I eventually moved from a Sinar to using a Hasselblad HTS 1,5 Tilt and Shift Adapter which works for my needs — others prefer technical or view cameras. I might consider another Sinar or some other view camera in the future, if Hasselblad produces a CFV 100C back.


You can't. I prefer to remain anonymous online as a personal preference for personal reasons.


This illustrated Technical Camera Overview from Hasselblad may give you some good basic information. There are a lot of different options available from excellent manufacturers both new and used. This particular forum is a great resource to browse and search as there are many experienced users of those options who have been active participants here for many years.

Hi
Thank you for all the informative answers and opinions and info you wrote before some months ago.
I just re read all the comments of what members offered and wanted to ask you too as you have good experience.

I never tried tech. cameras as I entered to photography too late, so my only experience is with DSLR, mirrorless and I tried Mamiya 645AFD with film, which is still DSLR type of shooting.
Is there some cheap option for tech. camera that is digital, that I can buy pretty inexpensive and experiment (this means body, back and lenses), can you suggest specific model that is still be good for today?

I also want to ask you opinion about the Fuji MF route, meaning buying some of their native lenses or from Hasselblad/Mamiya/Pentax 645/67 era? for products/ interiors/architecture.
Thank you very much

 

[TechTalk]

I apologize for the delay in responding. My time has been rather limited lately. I'm happy to know that you found some of what I wrote helpful to you.

I don't know what the right solution for you might be and no wrong answers have been offered in this thread or in other similar threads where you've looked for guidance. Different tools work for different individual photographers' needs. I'm confident you will be able to find the right answers for your needs. It may require some trial and error and hands on time with some equipment to find the solution which works well for you.

You may need to rent, borrow, join a photography group or club, attend a class at a local college, sign up for a seminar or workshop, travel to a dealer, or find other creative means of getting some personal experience with equipment which is of the type in which you're interested. Books, videos, online forums, and the like will only get you so far before you need to experience for yourself new types of photography and equipment to internalize what works best for your needs and desires.

When I have more time, I'll try to add anything which I think may be of use or interest to you. In the meantime I wish you a happy adventure.